Jesus said HE was the Way... He was the Truth... He was the Light...
I have been told, "What you do with HIM is the issue."
I might ask, What do we "do" with Christ? In our practical lives, how does that show up or look. Describe to me a way or actions that take place when we do Christ. And then please consider what part Jesus actually plays in that action.
My position is that Jesus has no practical part in our faithing. I wrote an essay that I deliberately called, "Jesus Doesn't Save." This was to drive home the point of my position. And I knew that the title would torture some deep traditional thinking. In many Christian circles Jesus has become bigger and better than God. I think some folks are hanging on to Jesus for dear life because they don't understand faith(ing). There are so many people that have been taught to believe that the focus of their faith is Jesus. They have been told that Jesus is the one who is the source of their faith, without Jesus, one can't have faith.
We don't faithe on Christ. We faithe on that which we know to be God's word. We do something that we believe is in accordance with God's will or wish. Christ has no part in our faithing except as an example that helps give us confidence. Jesus plays the exact same role as the Lost Tribes. The evidence of both Jesus and the Lost Tribes proves God.
Yes, Jesus opened the door to God. The door that allows our faithing to make contact. But that was a one time deal. It's over and Christ "sat down."
The point is, we're saved by faithing. Faithing is the only necessary criteria. All other circumstances or conditions are irrelevant. I love the example of the thief on the cross.[Luke 23:41-42] He did almost as little as Joseph. All he did was say a few words in the belief that Jesus was indeed the Son of God, minutes before his time ran out. It really shows how God looks at the heart. One little remark got the thief into heaven. Faithing, big or small, only faithing.
Does Jesus save or not? The stumbling point is, that the root of the matter is inseparable from Jesus. Another way to say it is, "Because of Jesus, faithing saves." His actions were fundamental to the process of faithing, for us. But, his work is already finished, and again, doesn't operate in our individual acts of faithing.
Let me make a comparison between Christ and the Holy spirit. When we faithe, the Holy spirit is put in our bodies. This is not some spiritual thing, it's an actual happening; whether we feel it or not. That's an after-the-fact kind of thing. In order to have Christ be an active part in our faithing, as is commonly misunderstood, Jesus would have to put his spirit in us before we faithed; to get us started. There would have to be some kind of actual "touch" or implant before we took any action. This is just not supported anywhere in scripture.
The behavior and teaching of some Christians, I think is misdirected. I've have heard, been told,
and read that we are to worship Jesus. That it's only Jesus who makes it possible for us to faithe; in that he is the "author and finisher of faith."(Heb 12:2) But we find that the original language doesn't uphold this interpretation. It says that he was the "first goer" and "completer" of the faithing process. This is one reason I stick with my view that Jesus doesn't operate in our faith acts, but acts as our example and helps give us confidence. He showed us, physically, what faithing looks like. Regarding confidence, it's the evidence of Jesus resurrection that proves God's word that He would raise up Jesus after three days. Jesus is our Prime example of faithing, and showed us the completed process.
Some would have Jesus reach into their hearts and jumpstart their acts of faith. This simply doesn't happen. Jesus didn't jumpstart Abraham's faithing. He doesn't jumpstart mine. My position is that Jesus has no practical part in our faithing.
Perhaps the following analysis will help clarify. I want to take faithing to the most basic place we can know. There is one place where we ALL have trod. All we share the same "birth". The "conversion experience". Paul makes it very clear in more than one place that we are to continue in the confidence in which we started. How do we start? We ALL start with the "conversion experience". It's our first act of faithing.
In order to understand this experience on a practical level, we can break it down into the formula for faithing. The A B C of faith, as Dr. Scott says.
Here's a basic outline for faithing as it relates to the conversion experience:
LOGIC AND EVIDENCE FOR FAITHING
PRACTICAL DEFINITION: Faithing is an action based on God's word or promise. God, respecting that trust, puts His Spirit in the Faither.
"CONVERSION" EXPERIENCE: Recognizing:
1-one's inadequacies,
2-Jesus and His ability to help. "Jesus, I've sinned. Save me."
FAITHED SEQUENCE:A(ction)-The saying of the confession and plea---based on:
B(elief)- The belief in God's word----sustained by:
C(onfidence)- Confidence that God will keep His word----results in:
Result- Sometimes a noticeable experience (to maybe only the Faither).
B1-Belief in God's word that says: Romans 10:9-10; I John 1:9; I John 4:2,15.
1-The Act demonstrates a belief in Jesus the person,
2-His ability to forgive and help you,
3-His resurrection(dead people don't help),
4-His Divinity (no human can forgive sin).
C1-Confidence gained through:
1-trusting anothers' word that the Bible (verses above) is true,
2-independent research showing that God keeps His word; fulfilled prophesy regarding verifiable historical fact.
FORMULA:
1-Find a promise in God's Word that applies to the goals that need to be met.
2-
- Tell God that you are claiming His assistance through the promises found,
- and through Jesus, ask/and thank Him for help.
- Affirm that you'll pay attention to the tasks so as to be receptive to His suggestions as you go along together.
CONCLUSIONS BASED ON THE EVIDENCE OF FAITHING:
- 1-God's Spirit comes in with each Faithing act; the amount of Spirit is the same as the amount of Faith/courage/action demonstrated.
- 2-The addition of a bit of the Spirit balances a bit the power of our Old Self(the part we confessed was inadequate). The Old Self is not displaced or taken out of the way, rendered functionless.
- 3-The overcoming of the Old Self is never complete; owing to it's surprising strength and sometime control. A constant state of conflict exists when the Spirit is present.
- 4-We need re-saving; on a continual basis. We need to do more than one act of faith. The stoney ground in the parable of the sower confirms this. It must have taken some acts of faith for the word to take hold enough to grow at all. The implication is that the person didn't stick with it long enough to get rooted. In other words, they changed their minds and stopped faithing.
- 5-The re-saving process must be the same as the original saving process--an act IN faith==Faithing.
- 6-More Faithing is needed than just praying daily that Jesus will forgive/help a person. Faithing is an ever-increasing process until we faithe 100% of the time; like Christ.
- 7-Faithing brings God's Spirit because it makes God feel good when someone SHOWS the world they trust Him by acting on His word. I know how that sounds, but, after all, Paul tells us in Hebrews that "without faith it's impossible to please God."
- 8-Acts of will like quitting smoking, don't attract the Spirit. God will help in the quitting, if asked, but not because of it. Here's how that would sound: "If I can only quit smoking, I'll be saved." We're not saved by works. I'd like to point out that nothing any human, or the combined human race has done, merits salvation.
The main thing I want to ask is, physically, what is this person's God-condition? Let's go slow.
- 1-The Father was responsible for bringing this person to the very point in time of the conversion. And let me remind that there is no necessity of a second person being present.
- 2-The Spirit comes for faithing.
- 3-This person has not faithed up to this point in his life.
- 4-This person has none of God's Spirit within him/her.
- 5-This person is actually 100% Old Self.
- 6-This person is completely out of touch with God. [An irrelevant quibble might be that the person couldn't "hear" God's call if he/she didn't have the "receiver" given at birth. So, the person's faithing is accomplished through the help of this "receiver". The rebutt to that idea is, "Many are called, few are chosen." Just having a receiver doesn't give one the power to actually faithe; the way one might argue that the Holy Spirit does. But now I must add that I don't believe that the HS jump starts our faithing either.]
- 7-This about-to-be faither must overcome his/her unbelief based totally on their belief in God's reality and ability and faithfulness to do what He says. And all this can be focused on Jesus or God. The source or vehicle of his/her belief is not at issue. Only that evidence of some type has given the person the confidence to begin the faithing act.
What's the bottom line? We're on our own when it comes to beginning some faithing act. I believe that the instant that God sees our "final determination", the flexing of our mental and physical muscles in preparation to moving in faith, He lays on the strength. Enough to keep us going smoothly. But it's our move first; which happens to paraphrase another piece from Fifty Pieces, The First Move Is Yours. Check out the man that Paul helped walk again. It was the lame person's initiation of the act of getting up that brought the Spirit of healing and allowed him to walk and "leap". Acts 14:9-10
THE IMPORTANT PART: Here comes one of those Universal concepts that underpins vast amounts of reality. This is what puts the rout to the argument that Jesus or God or the Holy Ghost helps us begin an act of faith. "Jump starts" our faithing.
The crux of this whole discussion lies in the principle of "free choice." God has given man the option of choosing. Rabbits didn't get that. Lions, either. Only people have the ability to decide against immediate evidence; to "go against instinct, if you will. Rabbits just bolt. Lions roar your head off.
God wants our faithing to be our FREE choice. He must insist on it, He won't have it any other way. From our first act of faithing to our last, He wants it to be OUR choice. To supply some type of outside agent to "help" us would go against His desire for that free choice.
One last point. I don't, as said above, ever stipulate what the action is, or how large. I know for sure that you can sit in Lotus for months thinking your needs or goals and nothing will happen. You must intrude on the physical reality. Blink your eyes. Write a note. Say a prayer. Movement is what's important. Movement that will allow God the place to add His strength. The action that you perform to let God know your need is your first step in the goal attainment process. Some might want to quibble that a prayer isn't the first actual step toward the goal, and thereby "prove" that the Spirit did indeed jumpstart an act of faith.
In the course of discussions on this topic, I've been challenged by the following questions.
1 Cor. 2:14 says, "...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Question: Is it not impossible for the "natural man" to have faith in God's Word?
No. The natural man, one with a receiver, has the ability to act on God's word; even though God's Spirit is not within him. He has the ability to find an utterance of God, and do some action based on that saying.
Question: Is it not possible for the "spiritual man" to have such faith?
Yes. Because people are people. The spiritual, one with a receiver, has the ability to act on God's word; even though God's Spirit is not within him. He has the ability to find an utterance of God, and do some action based on that saying.
Question: And is it not because the Spirit of Christ has opened his understanding of these matters, enabling and even strengthening the faith connection?
No. That work would have to come before the faithing act. Before the faithing act, the person is "drawn" to a faithing act by God. God pushes the person's 'button of Understanding', bringing enlightenment; which gives the person the confidence/courage to take a step in faith. The Spirit only comes after the faith act has begun. This enabling and strengthening comes from exposure to the evidence that God is real and keeps His word; probably accomplished through the agency of a domata.
Question: If God never helps our faith, then why is the gift of faith listed among the spirituals in 1 Cor. 12:8?
These are listed as results of the Spirit's working. "Manifestations of the Spirit" working within people, not from the outside. The workings are after the Spirit is indwelt. So, having the Spirit within us, as a result of faithing, can help us to greater acts of faithing. But the spirit comes for faithing. This is said repeatedly by Paul, as opposed to the one mention of the gift of faith.
Question: If the courage that comprises 90% of faith is not helped by God, then why is it written in Acts 4:31, when the church gathered to pray for boldness to speak the Word of God, that "...when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."
The act of prayer came first. The filling with the Holy Ghost, second. The prayer was the faithing that brought the Holy Ghost.
Question: Is it not true that no man can come to Christ unless he is "drawn" by His Spirit? If this does not mean an urging and prodding to faith (a "jumpstart" if you will, being that the battery of faith was *dead* before), then what does it mean?
It simply means that the person's receiver was working. This is apples and oranges. Being drawn is the not same process as faithing. One is a reaction. The other is a premeditated act of the will. The decision to actually faithe comes from the person, not God or Jesus. And this drawing is to come to God, not for every faith act thereafter. It is never indicated that the drawing happens more than once: or before every act of faith..
The simple Truth is that we are saved when we are "in Christ". We are in Christ when he is in us. We get Christ in us by faithing.
God promises the Spirit for faithing. Gal 3:14
Christ dwells in your heart by faithing. Eph 3:17
For "belief" (faithing), "keeping my words", Jesus spirit comes in. John 14: 15-26
"Stablishment by God... for the obedience of faithing. Rom 16:25-26
For by "grace are ye saved, through faith(ing)."
Faithe.
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